So keep that in mind. Alright so collagen, super important. You mentioned something earlier when talking about the skin. So folks are like- they're getting proactive, they're like- you know, they're trying to treat things from the outside in, but the inside out is really the approach. So let's talk a little bit more about the implications with beauty with collagen and just with our diet period. Cate Shanahan: So yeah, the most incredible thing about the word 'beauty' and 'diet,' is that we don't normally connect them really much beyond the skin or maybe the hair and nails and surface.
It goes so much deeper, and this of course is more obvious, or more like powerful I should say, when we're talking about the younger you are. So again, during gestation. And 'beauty' is a very kind of almost political word. It's a powerful thing, 'beauty. It has nothing to do with your internal- like whether you're a good person or not, but it does reflect optimal genetic expression and healthy genes.
So in 'Deep Nutrition' we talk about something called Genetic Wealth, and the sad thing is that around the world today, so many people are living off the land, and basically we call them impoverished, but they are actually sustaining their DNA and their genetic health much more so than we are in this country with all of our- much more money. Cate Shanahan: And conveniences and everything. Because we are not living off the land and getting the kind of nutrition that we used to. And it turns out that beauty, even though they say it's in the eye of the beholder, there's a formula for it, a mathematic formula, which to me suggests that it's not so much in the eye of the beholder.
What's in the eye of the beholder is the response to beauty and how exactly you respond.
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But we all agree on the geometric construction of movie stars. They all have very similar bone structure mathematically. They have high cheekbones, they have big lips, they have eyes of a certain spacing, certain angle to the jaw, and the nose, and the eyebrows, and everything like this. And it all boils down to a mathematical formula, a mathematical principle, constant really, called Fi as related to the Fibonacci sequence, which is what The Da Vinci Code was about, and what- you know, like the Illuminati and stuff.
It's like it really goes deep, and it's really wild stuff when you start looking into it. But there is a formula for human growth. It's a complicated formula, it needs this thing Fi to work, and when we have for generations built up our genetic wall, and we've continued to feed ourselves properly, so the genetic expression goes well, we grow- our skeletons grow in accordance with this geometric principle. And it's not just people, it's all living things, and in fact all things that grow. Like the universe, which grows, right?
It grows and there are spiral formations to galaxies that are based around this Fi, this ratio called Fi. And like anything that has a pattern in it in nature. So it's the waves in sand dunes, it's the seeds- the spiral seeds that you'll see growing out of a sunflower. All of that relate to just the way the universe works, the way the universe is growing. And so it sounds a little bit like metaphysical, and I guess it really is, but when we eat the way our genes expect us to eat, we are in harmony with the growth of the universe. I mean it sounds like something a hippie would say, but it's really true.
And you can see it most easily, you can actually measure it very objectively with teeth. So this insight first became apparent to me reading the works of a dentist named Weston Price who lived at the beginning of the 's. And he went around to all different cultures looking just for what did people eat when their teeth were straight, because back then it was a big deal to have crooked teeth because there wasn't really anesthetic that worked very well, you could die getting your teeth pulled. And so he actually wrote a book called 'Nutrition and Physical Degeneration' which also talks about what people around the world used to do to feed themselves, and how different it was, and how much more nutrition they got.
But he found that when people ate that way, their teeth were straight and they also didn't have cavities too, right? That's nice as well, like you're not eating the sugar. But it changes the way your teeth can be straight because your skull has enough space for the teeth to be permitted to grow in accordance with this ratio. And so it all fits together in the natural plan of the universe. There's another dentist actually, a dental surgeon named Stephen Marquardt who actually he was the guy who discovered this connection between the human face and this mathematical principle called Fi or Fibonacci.
It's a ratio, so the ratio is 1. So you know how like if you remember grade school, and Pi, the circle that's 3. Well this is another constant, 1. And that amazing number enables growth to happen in a way that keeps everything the way it should be. So like just a baby's hand, right? A baby's hand grows up to be an adult hand.
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And no matter the size of the hand, whether it's a baby or an adult, when you fold it into a fist, your fingers are lined up here in a line so that when you make a fist it's strong. And so this is an example of how we need geometry to be strong. If we folded up our fingers and one was like way longer than the other, we couldn't have as strong of a grip. And it has to do with that mathematical principle enabling the growth to happen that way so that we look like basically a human no matter how big or small we are. And this is where like I'm out of my depth, because I'm not a mathematician, but it is a benefit of nutrition and a benefit of beauty.
So like one of the things when I work with athletes, athletes are very attractive people generally, and it's not a coincidence. They have grown, their skeletons have grown in accordance with this principle, and they are stronger for it, so their bodies are more durable and they can jump higher, and lift heavier weights, and throw things farther, and fall more, and bounce better when they fall, and get right back up again because of this more ideal growth. And this is something that struck very- it's very important to me because I didn't have this. So like when I was an athlete too, and I was always getting injured, more so than other people.
And when you look at me, I have a short waist, and my hips are all kind of weird, and stuff like that, and it's a reflection of the fact that my skeleton didn't develop properly, and so my hips aren't quite deep enough, so I was always getting hip injuries, and you know it's just one of these things that it's a real bummer, you know? And I don't want other children to have to deal with this, and I totally believe that it's preventable.
I don't know how far back you'd have to go, whether it was me as a child eating better, or my mom as a child because she ate lousy too. But it is ultimately preventable, and it is ultimately something that you are going to benefit your own children if you keep eating healthy and help them learn what real healthy food looks like and tastes like. And this was a story you shared, and this was the catalyst for you learning about all this stuff that you're sharing with us today, and sharing with the world, was trying to kind of fix yourself and the pain that you were in from your experience, you know?
And playing- like competing at a pretty high level when you were doing your- you were doing like middle distance, like 's, right? Shawn Stevenson: And so that story- and by the way, of course we'll put that first episode in the show notes for everybody. But there are so many things to speak of- and shout-out to anybody who made a fist when she was talking about making a fist. And you know, it really kind of is a realization for us that when we talk about beauty is in the eye of the beholder, we can find beauty in anything, but what we're talking about here is an appreciation, a natural inclination towards being attracted to pattern, right?
There's a certain structure and pattern, and you even got some research in the book from like animals just wanting to stare at a certain pattern, and how we can have things be just a little bit off of these numbers that can kind of withdraw and take away from this pattern that we tend to be attracted to.
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And by no means does this mean that any of us are seeking to be perfect, or that there is such thing as a perfect, but there are these patterns, and I think you really detailed that in a fascinating way in the book. And this term that you used, 'dynamic symmetry,' right? So with that said, us trying to maximize and working on even for our future generations the best expression of our genes is avoiding certain things.
So we talked about sugar a little bit, we talked about some things that we want to add in, in the form of collagen is one of the things we covered. But there's a story, there's something else that's pretty messed up going on, and there's a story about you had something on your desk, it was a run-in from the CIA President.
Can you talk about that? Cate Shanahan: So this is while I was in Napa, California where they grow a lot of wonderful California wines, and there the CIA is not the government entity but a private culinary college, Culinary Institute of America, which is one of the most prestigious places a chef can get trained.
And they actually have sponsorship unfortunately from Unilever where the- Unilever is like one of the biggest manufacturers of canola oil, and my husband and I, while we were living there, we did a recurring article called 'The Stock Report' in the newspaper. And one of the- a little play on words there, because we were all about bone stock. Not good with the other stock market at all.
Like you can use these cheap substitutes and save pennies per meal or whatever, but that's what's been happening in the country, in all of our restaurants, so that we actually- the majority of a person's fat calories now come from things like canola oil, and soy oil, and sunflower oil. And these are processed vegetable oils that when you talked earlier like sugar cravings, one of the things that's going into my next book is the research that shows that these oils cannot be used by the body to produce energy as efficiently as the body needs.
And so that they are the reason that actually our cells start requesting more sugar, and so that we actually have these sugar cravings because of this vegetable oil problem that we have in our restaurants. And if you go- try to find salad dressing. I challenge you to find salad dressing or mayonnaise anywhere but Thrive Market, where they sell a bunch of mayonnaise that's made out of avocado oil.
But most of that kind of condiment type stuff is going to be made using these cheap oils because the word has not gotten out about how bad they are. You know, we know cigarette smoking is bad, and people talk now about sugar much more intelligently than we used to, but the vegetable oil thing is still like- it's no one is talking about it.
And it's- you know, I am actually a little bit nervous because I am one of these people that is talking about it, and I've heard about other people losing their jobs, and not getting funding. Maybe that's why I was actually- when I saw the letters, it did occur to me. I was like, "Uh-oh, now my number is up. Hopefully you're safe, Shawn. Shawn Stevenson: It's such a crazy thing because in our world, it's just like so Captain Obvious.
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It's so obvious, we've been through this, it's just like why are we still talking about it? But like you said, the word has not gotten out. Even companies like Whole Foods, you know? They're doing a lot of stuff right, and trying to provide things better.
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You go to their hot bar, you get food from their restaurant, they're using canola oil. It's just like, "Guys, really let's get together on this.
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So talk about what it is, first of all what the heck is canola oil, and why is it something that we should really be mindful to avoid? Cate Shanahan: So canola oil is just- it's a vegetable oil. Like so it's a cooking oil, and it's used in place of more expensive oils like olive oil. You can hydrogenate it, makes it even more unhealthy, and you can use it in place of butter.
There's six major vegetable oils, three C's, and three S's. So we've got corn, canola, cottonseed, soy, sunflower, safflower. And those are the ones that you're going to see in ingredients in the grocery store.